Comments on: SharePoint Folders vs. Metadata http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/01/29/sharepoint-folders-vs-metadata/ No GeekSpeak on SharePoint 2007 WSS and MOSS Tue, 08 Mar 2011 23:34:22 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Dave Moss http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/01/29/sharepoint-folders-vs-metadata/comment-page-1/#comment-100604 Dave Moss Fri, 17 Sep 2010 20:29:13 +0000 http://www.endusersharepoint.com/?p=5489#comment-100604 Does anybody know if it is possible/advisable to create a custom field type that returns a folder name as if it were meta-data? Any advice, ideas or suggestions on the best way to do this would be appreciated. Does anybody know if it is possible/advisable to create a custom field type that returns a folder name as if it were meta-data? Any advice, ideas or suggestions on the best way to do this would be appreciated.

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By: Christophe http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/01/29/sharepoint-folders-vs-metadata/comment-page-1/#comment-77429 Christophe Sat, 26 Jun 2010 02:50:20 +0000 http://www.endusersharepoint.com/?p=5489#comment-77429 Hi Tom, Just a couple comments on your message: - the ability to collect connected metadata is, as you point out, a limitation of SP 2007, and has been added in SP 2010. - metadata are essential for cross-referencing content, and this is especially useful in matrix organizations. It is true that you won't see much benefit in pure hierarchical organizations. Also, I often see situations where a document is associated to multiple projects, and in this case folders just don't work. So I completely disagree with your last statement. - "it can be done in code" and "it needs to be done by a programmer" are two different things, and one of the roles of blogs like Mark's and mine is to make code accessible to non-programmers (agree, easier said than done). Hi Tom,

Just a couple comments on your message:
- the ability to collect connected metadata is, as you point out, a limitation of SP 2007, and has been added in SP 2010.
- metadata are essential for cross-referencing content, and this is especially useful in matrix organizations. It is true that you won’t see much benefit in pure hierarchical organizations. Also, I often see situations where a document is associated to multiple projects, and in this case folders just don’t work. So I completely disagree with your last statement.
- “it can be done in code” and “it needs to be done by a programmer” are two different things, and one of the roles of blogs like Mark’s and mine is to make code accessible to non-programmers (agree, easier said than done).

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By: Eugene Rosenfeld http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/01/29/sharepoint-folders-vs-metadata/comment-page-1/#comment-77377 Eugene Rosenfeld Fri, 25 Jun 2010 17:48:53 +0000 http://www.endusersharepoint.com/?p=5489#comment-77377 Tom, I understand your frustration. In fact, I'm going to add to it a bit. Project management is more than just documents, it's also maintaining tasks, issues, risks, etc. You also have to be able to easily archive and restore data for one project without losing other project data. And as you noted, you want to make it easy for users to know the context of the project in which they are working. Even better, if you could also make the Microsoft Office client applications automatically filter the data (documents, links, and tasks) they display to just the items for the current project. Now the good news. The easy way to handle this is to have each project be its own SharePoint site. But, you still need your project list in order to maintain the project-based metadata. To that end, I wrote a tool called List Item Workspaces that allows regular users to create SharePoint workspace sites based on any list item, similar to the way that document and meeting workspaces behave. With the List Item Workspaces tool, you can create your central project list with the metadata you need to track. When you add a new project, the List Item Workspaces tool will automatically create a team site for the project and maintain the linkage between the list item and the team site. All project documents, tasks, links, contact info, and other items go into the project site. This way users always know which project they are in and do not have to constantly worry about setting filters on the documents, tasks, contact info and other list items that they work with in SharePoint. Best of all, the Office client applications will show users only the content related to the current project. You can even use Mark's suggestion of using the CQWP for aggregating data across multiple projects. We use the List Item Workspaces tool on our own portal for managing projects and much more. You can see the tool and download it free from: http://www.blackbladeinc.com/en-us/products/liworkspaces Hope this helps. -Eugene Tom, I understand your frustration. In fact, I’m going to add to it a bit. Project management is more than just documents, it’s also maintaining tasks, issues, risks, etc. You also have to be able to easily archive and restore data for one project without losing other project data. And as you noted, you want to make it easy for users to know the context of the project in which they are working. Even better, if you could also make the Microsoft Office client applications automatically filter the data (documents, links, and tasks) they display to just the items for the current project.

Now the good news. The easy way to handle this is to have each project be its own SharePoint site. But, you still need your project list in order to maintain the project-based metadata. To that end, I wrote a tool called List Item Workspaces that allows regular users to create SharePoint workspace sites based on any list item, similar to the way that document and meeting workspaces behave.

With the List Item Workspaces tool, you can create your central project list with the metadata you need to track. When you add a new project, the List Item Workspaces tool will automatically create a team site for the project and maintain the linkage between the list item and the team site. All project documents, tasks, links, contact info, and other items go into the project site. This way users always know which project they are in and do not have to constantly worry about setting filters on the documents, tasks, contact info and other list items that they work with in SharePoint. Best of all, the Office client applications will show users only the content related to the current project. You can even use Mark’s suggestion of using the CQWP for aggregating data across multiple projects.

We use the List Item Workspaces tool on our own portal for managing projects and much more. You can see the tool and download it free from:

http://www.blackbladeinc.com/en-us/products/liworkspaces

Hope this helps.
-Eugene

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By: EndUserSharePoint http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/01/29/sharepoint-folders-vs-metadata/comment-page-1/#comment-77370 EndUserSharePoint Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:50:10 +0000 http://www.endusersharepoint.com/?p=5489#comment-77370 I'm not convinced this isn't do-able with site columns at the site collection level. Create a custom list at the top of the site collection, Lookup-ProjectNames, with all the fields you want for defining a project: Project Name, Project Manager, Project Manager Email Address, etc. Create a site column, "Project Name", using the "Lookup" data type, and point to the Lookup-ProjectName list, sucking in the names of the projects as the values. This site column can now be used anywhere throughout the site collection. On your project document library, add the site column "Project Name" and every document will have a project name associated with it. When the document library is displayed, clicking on any name in the Project Name column will drill down to the project name item, giving all the information stored about that project. Another BIG advantage of doing it this way is that now you can use a Content Query Web Part to roll up all information about a project, since CQWP searches against site column values. Hope that helps, Mark I’m not convinced this isn’t do-able with site columns at the site collection level. Create a custom list at the top of the site collection, Lookup-ProjectNames, with all the fields you want for defining a project: Project Name, Project Manager, Project Manager Email Address, etc. Create a site column, “Project Name”, using the “Lookup” data type, and point to the Lookup-ProjectName list, sucking in the names of the projects as the values.

This site column can now be used anywhere throughout the site collection. On your project document library, add the site column “Project Name” and every document will have a project name associated with it. When the document library is displayed, clicking on any name in the Project Name column will drill down to the project name item, giving all the information stored about that project.

Another BIG advantage of doing it this way is that now you can use a Content Query Web Part to roll up all information about a project, since CQWP searches against site column values.

Hope that helps,
Mark

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By: Tom J. http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/01/29/sharepoint-folders-vs-metadata/comment-page-1/#comment-77287 Tom J. Fri, 25 Jun 2010 12:40:06 +0000 http://www.endusersharepoint.com/?p=5489#comment-77287 Since this is a site that focuses on end-users, and not programmers, I have a few problems with this comparison table. I've spent several days trying to build a simple document repository, only to learn that what I need requires extensive programming. Say you want to create a collaborative library of project documents that will be shared by multiple participants. Each document is associated to one project, so it would be identified by appropriate project info. Presumably you'll create a master list of projects that includes data like customer name, project date, project description, and probably some kind of ID number. Then when you want to upload a project doc, you simply pick a line from the master project list, and associate it to the document, right? Wrong. 1. When a user wants to upload a document, they *cannot* select which project. They could select a customer, then separately select the description, but there's no way to make sure they're connected! 2. You could use a list instead of a library, uploading the project docs as attachments. But then you lose all of the important features: checkout/checkin. versioning, etc. 3. You can't send someone a link to the file, e.g. "Bob, here's the URL to the project plan." I have, however, been told by a dozen people that "all of what you want can be done in code." That's certainly true, but we don't have programmers available, nor are we prepared to invest all the time needed to design, then maintain, a custom application. Folder trees may be archaic and inelegant, but they're the only approach that allows Sharepoint to be used as a reliable structure for storing and sharing documents that are associated with a specific business construct, such as department, project, etc. Since this is a site that focuses on end-users, and not programmers, I have a few problems with this comparison table. I’ve spent several days trying to build a simple document repository, only to learn that what I need requires extensive programming.
Say you want to create a collaborative library of project documents that will be shared by multiple participants. Each document is associated to one project, so it would be identified by appropriate project info. Presumably you’ll create a master list of projects that includes data like customer name, project date, project description, and probably some kind of ID number. Then when you want to upload a project doc, you simply pick a line from the master project list, and associate it to the document, right? Wrong.
1. When a user wants to upload a document, they *cannot* select which project. They could select a customer, then separately select the description, but there’s no way to make sure they’re connected!
2. You could use a list instead of a library, uploading the project docs as attachments. But then you lose all of the important features: checkout/checkin. versioning, etc.
3. You can’t send someone a link to the file, e.g. “Bob, here’s the URL to the project plan.”

I have, however, been told by a dozen people that “all of what you want can be done in code.” That’s certainly true, but we don’t have programmers available, nor are we prepared to invest all the time needed to design, then maintain, a custom application.

Folder trees may be archaic and inelegant, but they’re the only approach that allows Sharepoint to be used as a reliable structure for storing and sharing documents that are associated with a specific business construct, such as department, project, etc.

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By: Cliff http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/01/29/sharepoint-folders-vs-metadata/comment-page-1/#comment-66324 Cliff Thu, 13 May 2010 05:21:21 +0000 http://www.endusersharepoint.com/?p=5489#comment-66324 Is the folder name metadata that can be referenced in a Document Library View? How would you reference a folder name (column) in a View a Library/List containing email message items, for example: Email Subject, Folder Name, Email Sender Group By Email Subject, Folder Name Is the folder name metadata that can be referenced in a Document Library View?
How would you reference a folder name (column) in a View a Library/List containing email message items, for example:

Email Subject, Folder Name, Email Sender
Group By Email Subject, Folder Name

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By: Robin Majumdar http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/01/29/sharepoint-folders-vs-metadata/comment-page-1/#comment-27573 Robin Majumdar Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:32:55 +0000 http://www.endusersharepoint.com/?p=5489#comment-27573 Nice write-up and comparison chart / thanks for sharing! One additional tidbit; SharePoint views can traverse items in folders... so it allows for the best of both worlds, items stored in folders can be presented using the power and flexibility of filtered and/or grouped views by activating the "Show all items without folders" in the view design. Cheers, Robin Nice write-up and comparison chart / thanks for sharing!

One additional tidbit; SharePoint views can traverse items in folders… so it allows for the best of both worlds, items stored in folders can be presented using the power and flexibility of filtered and/or grouped views by activating the “Show all items without folders” in the view design.

Cheers,
Robin

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By: Christophe http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/01/29/sharepoint-folders-vs-metadata/comment-page-1/#comment-27159 Christophe Mon, 01 Feb 2010 05:15:13 +0000 http://www.endusersharepoint.com/?p=5489#comment-27159 I wish more articles did that - ask when instead of whether. I agree with Jeff, this is a nice, easy to read reference. One point I don't agree with, though: I'd say that folders do grouping, and this is actually their main function. The difference with metadata is that folder grouping is exclusive - an item cannot be referenced under two different folders. I wish more articles did that – ask when instead of whether. I agree with Jeff, this is a nice, easy to read reference.

One point I don’t agree with, though: I’d say that folders do grouping, and this is actually their main function. The difference with metadata is that folder grouping is exclusive – an item cannot be referenced under two different folders.

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By: Jeff Jones http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/01/29/sharepoint-folders-vs-metadata/comment-page-1/#comment-26461 Jeff Jones Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:03:45 +0000 http://www.endusersharepoint.com/?p=5489#comment-26461 Thanks Eugene. Very nice table format for quick reference. Pick the right tool for the job, I agree. I've used both many times for various needs and it truly is a case by case basis with tradeoffs. I'm excited to learn more about SP2010's ability to more easily tag multiple items with metadata. That will help with our end user adoption. Thanks Eugene. Very nice table format for quick reference. Pick the right tool for the job, I agree. I’ve used both many times for various needs and it truly is a case by case basis with tradeoffs.

I’m excited to learn more about SP2010’s ability to more easily tag multiple items with metadata. That will help with our end user adoption.

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By: Bhavesh http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/01/29/sharepoint-folders-vs-metadata/comment-page-1/#comment-26458 Bhavesh Fri, 29 Jan 2010 15:40:42 +0000 http://www.endusersharepoint.com/?p=5489#comment-26458 Excellent post ! I agree both has got its own capabiltieis and a good information architecture should make use of both to achieve best of both. Very nice summary.. good work and keep it up ! Excellent post ! I agree both has got its own capabiltieis and a good information architecture should make use of both to achieve best of both. Very nice summary.. good work and keep it up !

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