Is SharePoint 2010 Relevant?
I received this in my email box this morning. It’s something I’ve been thinking about since the October SharePoint Conference in Las Vegas.
What is the value of learning, or following, SharePoint 2010 at this stage of the game? Who is this tidal wave of information being pushed at and is it relevant in its current state? Here’s the email I received:
“I recently had an email discussion with some of the guys I met at the Best Practices Conference last August about what conferences we would be attending this year. In the course of the email trail the subject of the various conference agendas came up and all 5 of us felt like all the conferences that had an agenda posted at that time were very heavily slanted towards the 2010 product.
While I certainly understand that it poses problems for some of us (and probably a lot of other people out there in the field as well). I work in an environment that probably won’t even consider moving to 2010 before the 2nd half of 2012 at the very earliest. The other guys in the discussion were all in a similar boat. The dilemma we all face is how do we justify the cost of attendance and travel to a conference that focuses on a technology we are not planning to adopt any time in the near future.
“I know you speak at a lot of SharePoint Saturday Events as well as attend and speak at a lot of the conferences. Are you hearing any concerns from attendees about the push towards 2010? Are the conference organizers taking the situation I describe into consideration when planning their events? What are the thoughts of other potential attendees in the community?”
I’ve stated it publically and I’ll say it again here: I think that most people should keep their head down and concentrate on the 2007 environment. Most rollouts won’t happen at least for a couple more years. Getting distracted with all the noise on 2010 is just that, a distraction.
I’ve caught fire for this opinion, but I’m standing firm: SharePoint 2010 will not be relevant for most people for at least two, if not three years… and you can quote me on that.
Mark Miller
Founder and Editor
EndUserSharePoint.com
Hi Mark,
That’s a really interesting perspective, I’ve heard you mention it before. I’m wondering though, do you think that this is different for the various sectors out there, or does this apply to most/all of them?
Or are you speaking purely from an upgrade perspective? I find that with any new clients that come on board with us, we recommend 2010 and not 2007, do you think 2007 should still be the recommendation? If so, why?
Really interested in your feedback,
Shereen
Relevant is an interesting way to phrase it. I think it is relevant, but that doesn’t mean a company is justified in jumping on the product immediately.
From a training perspective I see 2 sides to this. First you need to be aware of the next versions capabilities and short comings to properly design an upgradable environment. Second I feel that training is normally geared to people who are new to a certain technology, so naturally there are more people out there who lack in SharePoint 2010 knowledge than 2007.
I agree with, most customers will wait for SP1 to arrive before rolling out SP2010.. I’ve seen it with 2007, there were a lot of ‘bugs’ with the new features that shipped with 2007 (anybody familiar with Content Deployment pre-SP1/Infrastructure update?) and were fixed in a later stage, yet a lot of customers were faced with these problems.
Despite the fact I’d love to work on the new bits.. I’m not expecting to do this for the next couple of years..
Chris makes a good point when looking at the issue from a training perspective. However, the email focuses primarily on conferences which a lot of people don’t view as truly being “training”.
IMHO a conference is about insight into capabilities or how to handle specific situations. Things that can be addressed in a one hour session. Training (i.e. content delivered by MindSharp, Combined Knowledge, etc…) is more like something that is broader in scope and delivered over the course of a couple of days.
That being said, it is my feeling that some conference organizers are going to hurth themselves in the long run if they insist on focusing primarily on 2010 content. It will become increasingly difficult for those individuals supporting 2007 environments to justify the cost of attendance and travel to a conference that only has a few sessions dedicated to the product they support.
It’s what we were saying all along when we put together SPTechCon for San Francisco. Many consultants want to drive the discussion toward 2010 because they will get more engagements upgrading folks than they will from organizations standing pat on 2007. And of course, Microsoft will sell more licenses moving people to 2010. There always seems to be a disconnect between where the big software vendors and their partners want organizations to be, and where those organizations really are. That said, out of 72 classes at SPTechCon, I would estimate that just about half were geared to 2007, and half to 2010. interestingly, we got feedback from folks who said there was too much on 2007, and from others who said there was too much on 2010. And, as we begin planning for October’s SPTechCon in Boston, we will try to more clearly delineate which classes are focused on which version of the software.
I see this one playing out at SharePoint Saturday Round tables for the rest of the year.
i was glad to see this post. My company just announced that its selected platform to rebuild its intranet will be SP 2010.
We run 2007 here and (yikes!) 2003 in other branches. I was just about to ask “What should I be doing/reading/learing to prepare for this change?” , but it sounds like even go-getter companies (which mine isn’t) won’t be upgrading soon.
Is there *any* relevant transtional information that would be good to start reading now, or is it pointless to accumulate information that I’ll just have to re-learn when the time comes?
For those that are well versed in 2007, it’s a good opportunity to ramp up on 2010 and stay on the edge of what’s going on especially consultants and experts.
Customers have a different consideration. They are budgeting for existing or new. With upcoming projects they should look at what training they’ll need for the next 6 months to a year. With that in mind, I do think we’ll see a split and it’s very easy to see why many should continue to focus on 2007 and other 2010. 2010 is hot with those of us trying to ramp up and share what we’re learning.
I did attempt to address a similar question I get over and over again which is planning for new projects… do I stay or do I go?
To those where the answer is go. The answer is 2010 is extremely relevant and has been since Nov especially for planning and upgrade. The answer will be different and “it depends” is extremely applicable.
Joel
SharePoint Saturdays have been supported by a number of excellent vendors who expect sales to go up with a new release. Presenters often have a background as trainers or authors who also hope to demonstrate their abilities with the next gen technology. However, my concern with 2010 is more “tell me how not to screw up my migration” which I’ll get to someday. My day to day concerns are all 2007. I’d guess the coordinator’s from recent Saturday events can answer accurately, but I’ve been in the 2007 rooms and they have been packed. I have enjoyed seeing some of the great presenters from earlier shows, but when a presentation is 2010 centric, I have to find something relevant to my company. And then see them at a SharePint.
Hi Mark,
I completely agree with you.
From an end user/ power user prospective, SP2010 is that ‘cool’ product that everyone gets excited about and read about in about every SP related blog but is also somewhat of an abstraction.
I will probably not use it for 2 years, maybe more.
I am lucky enough to be one of the only person among my coworkers to have Office 2007 and my company has been using MOSS 2007 for ‘only’ 15 months.
May I point out (and this is not a criticism, I am an avid EUSP reader and fan) that, out of the 19 recordings from the SP Saturday EMEA, 12 are directly adressing SP2010 topics. I was kind of bummed about that…
Greg
Thanks Dave. To know that you are aware of the considerations of the audience is good to know. I look forward to participating again in Boston. Count me in for the 2007 sessions. — Mark
Shereen,
Agreed from a new customer aspect. If SharePoint is currently not in-house, a recommendation of 2010 after SP1 is probably a good thing. However, my argument is that the buzz about 2010 is so strong in the SharePoint ‘geek’ community, it’s becoming distracting to those Power Users and Site Managers who are depending upon us to help with their 2007 implementations.
2007 is not going away anytime soon. It still needs our support. It still needs our community attention.
I agree with you Mark, SP2010 looks like it is going to be a great product, but there are going to be some large hurdles to overcome before many existing WSS/MOSS 2007 environments move to 2010 — one hurdle is the new hardware requirements. In most environments, this means at minimum a move to a new server operating system and/or migration of existing servers to new hardware. Even for smaller IT shops this can be a significant undertaking, not to mention large enterprises with global SharePoint implementations.
The only place that I’m seeing any interest in 2010 right now are organizations that currently do not have a SharePoint implementation of any kind. I agree with Greg that even though there are some great things coming with 2010, it is getting a little frustrating that more and more blogs are turning their focus away from existing SharePoint users to 2010. It is getting very difficult to justify large conferences, especially if there is little offerred for 2007 users.
Whenever there is a major revision of any product, in this case SharePoint 2010, there is a period of time when consultants providing services around the platform get pinched a bit. Our clients (existing and potential) expect us to be experts in both platforms.
While my personal opinion of SharePoint 2010 reflects Mark Miller’s stated opinion (and, for the record, I truly appreciate Mark standing by his opinion), the reality is that often our clients make choices based on factors outside of our informed opinion. Not having knowledge and experience with SharePoint 2010 diminishes our reputations as SharePoint experts in the eyes of our client.
Given that there is a wealth of published material on SharePoint 2007 that is available at EUSP and countless other sources, I have no issue with the emergence of SharePoint 2010-centric content on SharePoint Saturdays and other sources.
Here is my 2 cents; working for the military is very interesting when it comes to SharePoint. I work for the Army Medical Department and WSS 3.0 is still in the ‘Testing’ phase for some hospitals. While some hospitals have moved to MOSS I don’t see upgrading to SharePoint 2010 for 3 to 4 years (for we are lucky). Having attended some conferences and other training, SharePoint still misses the ‘mark’ for Department of Defense use. As I mention before in other blogs and conferences and training, Microsoft needs to ask the age old question, “How do you do your work and this is what SharePoint can do for you.” Every branch of service has its own needs and requirements. Here is an example: We are using MOSS for our Intranet and I am the ‘only’ person to work with SharePoint. I’m the System Admin to the SharePoint Trainer and we have a hospital staff of 4,000 plus. There are other hospitals under the same command with 2 or more SharePoint Admins and still using WSS 3.0. Please listen to what is going on ‘real’ world and don’t forget not every company has 2010.
1. MOSS 07 is not going anywhere for at least the next 16 months. It is well entrenched and CTOs need more ROI out of the platform. Particularly considering the depleted coffers resulting from the recent economic downturn.
2. However there’s a tremendous groundswell of interest around the SP 2010 product from existing SharePoint users, ISVs and developers. I think you will see the SharePoint community grow 3 fold as a result of this release. There are folks clamoring to get on the SharePoint bus and 2010 is their ticket.
3. Self-serving or not, hosted SharePoint will allow folks to upgrade faster and with less pain. And I would dare say an unbiased cost analysis of hard and soft costs will yield surprising results. Most CTOs do not have a solid grasp of SharePoint’s true cost when it is on-premise. I suggest taking a look at Russ Edelman’s article in CIO Magazine: How to Determine the True Cost of SharePoint.
http://www.cio.com/article/496330/How_to_Determine_the_True_Cost_of_Microsoft_SharePoint
Mark, I just mentioned SP 2010 and upgradability issues on my blog yesterday. What I said echoes Chris Schwab’s comment: “you need to be aware of the next versions capabilities and short comings to properly design an upgradable environment”. A couple years is not that far.
That said, most people we talk to are users whose may concern is to run a business, not to design applications. And for these ones worrying about SP 2010 is certainly far too early.
Is it possible that everyone is correct? Just like the SharePoint platform itself is used differently by organization for many features perhaps there is no “right” answer here. There will be some organizations which “migrate” and some which don’t.
MS has made it clear that SharePoint is one of four foundations which can be used to collaborate and build applications. You now have WPF, WCF, WWF and WSF (Windows SharePoint Foundation) and it is clear the SharePoint Foundation is a keystone in the MS stack from this point forward.
If your company is not “deploying” SharePoint you may see pockets of WSF in your organization sooner than you think. What does “deploy 2010” mean? Are you suggesting your company will not replace its existing WCM, ECM or BI 2007 implementation with 2010 anytime soon? I can see this being the case for many companies.
This said vendors will have applications built with the SharePoint foundation and you may choose to use the “free” version where appropriate. You may build apps, collaborate or store documents using WSF. The big question is what vendor will step up and offer integration? Who will write code allowing you to use a “small” 2010 farm to publish Managed Metadata to your SharePoint 2007 farms? Who will publish service apps for Search, and other applications which can be consumed by your SharePoint 2007 farm?
Unfortunately some conferences may choose to only focus on the new. This may be an oversight in my opinion. At minimum sessions should include topics on integration between 2007 and 2010. Surely these integration topics will be covered in upcoming administration book releases by MVP’s and the community.
You might also consider that conferences tend to be forward looking and focus on new technology. This is true of all conferences made of experts. You wouldn’t go to a medical conference on cancer prevention and expect to learn about previous versions of medicines or technology.
Training is becoming a commodity; there will be plenty of training for both versions of the product. In business if there are dollars involved or a “market” the need will be filled.
I truly find peace knowing that there are few “right” answers when it comes to SharePoint questions. I love the fact that I can answer every question with; “It depends”.
What is my answer to your email? It depends!
Paul S.
f I had my way, all current SharePoint 2007 installations, knowledge, and tools would be abolished and replaced with SharePoint 2010 equivalents. The world would be much better off that way. Read more at http://www.sharepointmadscientist.com/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=52
I look after our SharePoint 2007 installation (<100 users) and we will be moving to 2010 pretty quickly. Our issue was we had a poor initial 2007 installation by a SharePoint consultancy here in the UK which killed off any initial enthusiasm about the product; it became a bit of an internal joke.
2010 will give us an opportunity to relaunch SharePoint into the company. It looks different enough for users to see it as a new system (and how it looks is always a big factor with non-technical users). I know going ahead with a pre-sp1 Microsoft product is always risky but hey, we're rolling out Windows 7 at the moment so why not?!
I find this an interesting viewpoint. We are a big retail chain and we use SharePoint 2007 extensively. We are currently in the process of reviewing SharePoint 2010, and in our case we are planning rollout within 2 weeks of it’s release across a 1500 users.
The new features of SharePoint 2010 makes it the ideal solution for a lot of issues we have been having and for certain developments not being done on SharePoint 2007. We have done testing and everything in our current environment will work once we move across, and for us at least, there is no valid reason to wait.
From a BI perspective, every tool we need is in SharePoint 2010, and therefore the motivation from management has been to implement and rollout. I could not be happier with this decision, since getting my developers to work with 2007 was a huge issue, with 2010 they have actually enjoyed developing for SharePoint.
First, let me just state a few things about what my organization currently has in production:
Multiple instances of SQL2000 and 2005 (nothing of 2008 yet).
Multiple instances of WSS 3.0 (no MOSS at all)
Decommissioned an instance of SPS2003 about 1 month ago (finally)
All prodcuction servers are running Win2k3R2 (32 bit) – approx 90 physical, 10 VM (nothing server 2k8, nothing 64bit)
Exchange 2003
Office 2k7
WinXP client machines (95%)
Win Vista (3%)
Win7 (2%) – plan is to roll out Win7 to all client machines (skipping over Vista)
Approx 5k-8k users (depending on time of year – we’re a college)
Based on the above, yes – we are behind the times, but its also the norm when it comes to State ran organizations. We just dont always have the budget to upgrade when we want, and planning can be a bit of a nightmare when trying to determine the best approach and “timing” to roll out new tech for our users. Some of our more “Grandiose” ideas have fell to the wayside simply because of the culture we have to deal with…”My job would be so much nicer if it wasn’t for the people I have to deal with”, said the customer service rep. Everything is committee-based (there was even a committe formed once, to investigate the over-use of committess – I kid you not), so most things get tied up in red-tape for the sole purpose of not “wanting” to give an answer (”If I ignore it, then maybe it will just go away”).
Being the SharePoint Evangelist that I am within my org, I’ve ran “Welcome back” sessions at the beginning of the new school year with large groups of my users, that afterwhich, they were so ramped up with the idea of what “could” be done within SharePoint, they couldn’t wait to start using it. But then the waiting began…the committes started to form…the “Web Task Force” (the name implies “Commandos with iPads”, but in reality was nothing more than a “Bureaucratic Round-File”…hours of my life that I’ll never get back)…the “We’ll have to find a budget for this” promises that became the “Sorry…we just couldn’t find the funds…” boilerplate statements. It pained me to have to let down my users simply because those above me could not, or would not commit… or try and find a way.
For 2010 though, we’re going to take a different approach. We already had the budget approval for MOSS, just not the support to roll it out yet. So we’re going to take the budget and apply it towards 2010 and take our time in its development and implementation. We already have some users ready to start using it internally for their offices and groups, so we’ll take the phased approach to slowly integrate in some of our existing services then focus on what problems SP can address and see how to use it meet those needs.
[From Mark Miller]
“2007 is not going away anytime soon. It still needs our support. It still needs our community attention.”
I couldn’t agree more…especially with 2010 still just being a “beta” product. In my organization, we’re currently about 1 month past our SPS2003 decommission…meaning up until 30 days ago, we were still using SharePoint 2003!!!. It pains me to think that we were still using it for so long, but in a state-ran organization such as mine, change is often slow to happen and we wind up supporting multiple versions of products simultaneously (see above for what we have for SQL alone). Although we wont ever have an instance of MOSS, our instances of WSS 3.0 will still need support for many years to come.
[From Chris Quick]
“The only place that I’m seeing any interest in 2010 right now are organizations that currently do not have a SharePoint implementation of any kind.”
I’d like to add to this that it also depends on the purpose of your implementation that may dictate whether or not to look at 2007 or 2010. In my org, we have 2 production instances of WSS3.0, but no MOSS. I’ve spent the better part of the past year moving everything off of 2003 (our previous “failed” attempt at an Intranet solution) with the intent of restructuring and rebuilding a new Intranet in MOSS, but with the lack of buy-in in the previous attempt, our plan is to take things slow and work on developing things within 2010 instead (1-2 year plan for rollout). I’ll be bringing up an instance of 2010 internally for my team for testing and proof-of-concept applications for our portal ideas, but for the masses it will still be some time before they see anything “live” (aside from select groups with whom we’ll be phasing certain aspects of 2010 into their work environments). We have no plans of upgrading our instances of WSS either…if it aint broke, dont fix it…no reason to needlessly upgrade if things do exactly what is needed now (maybe 3-5 years down the road, but not any time in the immediate future).
[From Rob LaMear]
“MOSS 07 is not going anywhere for at least the next 16 months”
Have I mentioned that we just decommissioned our SPS2003 instance…and that we’re still using SQL2000? :)
MOSS will most likely be good to go for at least another 3 years, if not more. Its fine to start thinking about 2010, as many are, and yes I do agree that the community will grow even more with this latest version, but it will still be some time before it is ready for primetime. I myself will be working with it very soon (just got my new 64bit Dev machine at work yesterday – it was like Christmas!!), but production-level will still be some time off. Also, I do agree that “Hosted” environments will get a nice boon from this as well. With the new requirements on servers for this version, hosted and “Clouds” will really take off with new users…heck, we may even look into it as well (refer back to the beginning of this comment for what we currently have server-wise).
- Dessie
Moving on to SP2010 from MOSS is not a trivial task.
The sheer volume of information needed before you can start designing SP2010 farms makes it a task that needs thorough preparation. Hopefully pushing as much information out as soon as possible will mean that both consultants and customers realizes this.
As with the current IE6 discussion, I do realize that there are good reasons both to upgrade and to stay on the old platform, but one of the consequences for the company that still runs IE6 and still runs SharePoint 2003 is that they should expect less support from the community and from official sources like conferences.
As Paul and others mention, if you pay the buck you will be able to get training (probably even SP 2001 training if you pay enough ;-) but for conferences that has a broader target that training I would be surprised to see SP2007 sessions and it would have to be a really good topic and presenter for me to attend that session.