Comments on: “Why Out-of-the-Box Makes No Sense in SharePoint” – A Rebuttal http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/04/26/why-out-of-the-box-makes-no-sense-in-sharepoint-%e2%80%93-a-rebuttal/ No GeekSpeak on SharePoint 2007 WSS and MOSS Mon, 27 Dec 2010 21:17:12 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Todd Kitta http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/04/26/why-out-of-the-box-makes-no-sense-in-sharepoint-%e2%80%93-a-rebuttal/comment-page-1/#comment-61059 Todd Kitta Wed, 28 Apr 2010 15:49:50 +0000 http://www.endusersharepoint.com/?p=7452#comment-61059 Marc, I generally agree with your statements. I think you can generally ignore such staunch and polar opinions such as the one offered by Bjørn. I do also believe it depends on what one's opinion of OOTB is. Working "with" SharePoint instead of against it is pretty much always a good thing, however. Marc, I generally agree with your statements. I think you can generally ignore such staunch and polar opinions such as the one offered by Bjørn. I do also believe it depends on what one’s opinion of OOTB is. Working “with” SharePoint instead of against it is pretty much always a good thing, however.

]]> By: Sue Hanley http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/04/26/why-out-of-the-box-makes-no-sense-in-sharepoint-%e2%80%93-a-rebuttal/comment-page-1/#comment-60295 Sue Hanley Mon, 26 Apr 2010 17:53:43 +0000 http://www.endusersharepoint.com/?p=7452#comment-60295 I couldn't agree with you more. What's most important about successful SharePoint solutions is that they solve a business problem. Even if your problem set is very well thought out, you can start out with "out of the box" - as long as your definition of "out of the box" is around configuration, not customization. For example, planning your use of metadata and, when you go to SharePoint 2010, planning how you want to leverage social computing features. That said, even though content should be more important than "pretty," there is something to be said about having a nice, appealing UI, which may require, as you suggest "slightly adapted out of the box." I couldn’t agree with you more. What’s most important about successful SharePoint solutions is that they solve a business problem. Even if your problem set is very well thought out, you can start out with “out of the box” – as long as your definition of “out of the box” is around configuration, not customization. For example, planning your use of metadata and, when you go to SharePoint 2010, planning how you want to leverage social computing features. That said, even though content should be more important than “pretty,” there is something to be said about having a nice, appealing UI, which may require, as you suggest “slightly adapted out of the box.”

]]> By: Robert MacLean http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/04/26/why-out-of-the-box-makes-no-sense-in-sharepoint-%e2%80%93-a-rebuttal/comment-page-1/#comment-60287 Robert MacLean Mon, 26 Apr 2010 17:19:50 +0000 http://www.endusersharepoint.com/?p=7452#comment-60287 Agree completely, and if I compare two deployments in the same company. The value for money/time with a lighter touch upfront and growing it rather than the full hog approach, we are definitely seeing a major benefit on the lighter touch more. Agree completely, and if I compare two deployments in the same company. The value for money/time with a lighter touch upfront and growing it rather than the full hog approach, we are definitely seeing a major benefit on the lighter touch more.

]]> By: Xene http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/04/26/why-out-of-the-box-makes-no-sense-in-sharepoint-%e2%80%93-a-rebuttal/comment-page-1/#comment-60269 Xene Mon, 26 Apr 2010 16:28:02 +0000 http://www.endusersharepoint.com/?p=7452#comment-60269 Thanks, and now I see it is posted here on EUSP too! Thanks, and now I see it is posted here on EUSP too!

]]> By: Brian Reeves http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/04/26/why-out-of-the-box-makes-no-sense-in-sharepoint-%e2%80%93-a-rebuttal/comment-page-1/#comment-60259 Brian Reeves Mon, 26 Apr 2010 16:13:08 +0000 http://www.endusersharepoint.com/?p=7452#comment-60259 I agree with you Marc. I've been working with the Marine Corps for about three years now since they transitioned to WSS 3.0/MOSS 2007. The Marine Corps uses a full spectrum of SharePoint applications from heavily customized MOSS development for overseas use/functionality, to extreme out of the box End User applications at the smaller unit level. I agree with one of the earlier posts that OOTB does NOT mean as is. OOTB for SharePoint should mean no code development (well, I would include the Content Editor Web Part as an OOTB feature that technically uses 'code'). I would even say on a superficial level that some basic Workflow design with SP Designer can be considered OOTB with some simple End User training. Too many people jump right into heavy development for SharePoint without allowing their users to understand the WHY of web collaboration and information management. Heavily developed sites make users feel like recipients of information management, rather than participants. I agree with you Marc. I’ve been working with the Marine Corps for about three years now since they transitioned to WSS 3.0/MOSS 2007. The Marine Corps uses a full spectrum of SharePoint applications from heavily customized MOSS development for overseas use/functionality, to extreme out of the box End User applications at the smaller unit level.

I agree with one of the earlier posts that OOTB does NOT mean as is. OOTB for SharePoint should mean no code development (well, I would include the Content Editor Web Part as an OOTB feature that technically uses ‘code’). I would even say on a superficial level that some basic Workflow design with SP Designer can be considered OOTB with some simple End User training.

Too many people jump right into heavy development for SharePoint without allowing their users to understand the WHY of web collaboration and information management. Heavily developed sites make users feel like recipients of information management, rather than participants.

]]> By: Marc Anderson http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/04/26/why-out-of-the-box-makes-no-sense-in-sharepoint-%e2%80%93-a-rebuttal/comment-page-1/#comment-60249 Marc Anderson Mon, 26 Apr 2010 15:31:37 +0000 http://www.endusersharepoint.com/?p=7452#comment-60249 If you find this article interesting, then you should read <a href="http://weblogs.asp.net/bsimser/archive/2010/04/21/what-is-sharepoint-out-of-the-box.aspx" rel="nofollow">Bil Simser's reply</a> to Bjorn and me as well. M. If you find this article interesting, then you should read Bil Simser’s reply to Bjorn and me as well.

M.

]]> By: Xene http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/04/26/why-out-of-the-box-makes-no-sense-in-sharepoint-%e2%80%93-a-rebuttal/comment-page-1/#comment-60235 Xene Mon, 26 Apr 2010 14:52:41 +0000 http://www.endusersharepoint.com/?p=7452#comment-60235 Marc - I like the definition you provided of a successful implementation "Fundamentally changes the way people work" I'm doing that every day with Out-Of-the-Box 100%, no Designer here. I'm interested to know if other readers agree with the definition that Bjorn provides for OOB to mean exactly as is, no deleting columns or manipulating views, but strictly use what is there as it pops onto the screen? Not how I see it at all. Sharepoint is a tool, how many tools work themselves? From Bjorn's perspective, it seems to me that he might argue that even ~using~ Sharepoint suddenly changes it from OOB implementation. I mean realistically, adding a contact to a contact list corrupts the purity of OOB, does it not? So from that extreme perspective that is true, OOB doesn't make sense, but I think that is it irresponsible to post such an haughty view, especially by someone claiming to be proponent of Sharepoint. Marc – I like the definition you provided of a successful implementation “Fundamentally changes the way people work” I’m doing that every day with Out-Of-the-Box 100%, no Designer here.

I’m interested to know if other readers agree with the definition that Bjorn provides for OOB to mean exactly as is, no deleting columns or manipulating views, but strictly use what is there as it pops onto the screen? Not how I see it at all. Sharepoint is a tool, how many tools work themselves? From Bjorn’s perspective, it seems to me that he might argue that even ~using~ Sharepoint suddenly changes it from OOB implementation. I mean realistically, adding a contact to a contact list corrupts the purity of OOB, does it not? So from that extreme perspective that is true, OOB doesn’t make sense, but I think that is it irresponsible to post such an haughty view, especially by someone claiming to be proponent of Sharepoint.

]]> By: Jay http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/04/26/why-out-of-the-box-makes-no-sense-in-sharepoint-%e2%80%93-a-rebuttal/comment-page-1/#comment-60222 Jay Mon, 26 Apr 2010 14:30:26 +0000 http://www.endusersharepoint.com/?p=7452#comment-60222 Andrew, It's not just developers that do it. I've seen too many instances where someone at the management level gets involved and just doesn't get the point that the whole point of SharePoint is to provide the enduser with a solution to a problem they are experiencing. It becomes "That's not what I want" rather than "This is what they need". End result........mandates to the SharePoint architect/admin/developer to rip out the OOTB solution that would have worked just fine, provided a quick and simple solution to the problem the end users were having and spend the next 6 months writing code and developing a solution that is complicated and all but guaranteed to break at some point in time. Of course that's assuming that the end users use it all. -Jay Andrew,

It’s not just developers that do it. I’ve seen too many instances where someone at the management level gets involved and just doesn’t get the point that the whole point of SharePoint is to provide the enduser with a solution to a problem they are experiencing. It becomes “That’s not what I want” rather than “This is what they need”.

End result……..mandates to the SharePoint architect/admin/developer to rip out the OOTB solution that would have worked just fine, provided a quick and simple solution to the problem the end users were having and spend the next 6 months writing code and developing a solution that is complicated and all but guaranteed to break at some point in time.

Of course that’s assuming that the end users use it all.

-Jay

]]> By: Andrew Clark http://www.endusersharepoint.com/2010/04/26/why-out-of-the-box-makes-no-sense-in-sharepoint-%e2%80%93-a-rebuttal/comment-page-1/#comment-60213 Andrew Clark Mon, 26 Apr 2010 14:20:49 +0000 http://www.endusersharepoint.com/?p=7452#comment-60213 I could not agree with your statements more. The beauty of SharePoint is how its functionality differs from business to business. Each place that I visit has a completely different implementation than the other, which never makes for a dull day. Have you noticed how some developers tend to over engineer solutions instead of discovering an OOTB method inside SharePoint? I could not agree with your statements more. The beauty of SharePoint is how its functionality differs from business to business. Each place that I visit has a completely different implementation than the other, which never makes for a dull day.

Have you noticed how some developers tend to over engineer solutions instead of discovering an OOTB method inside SharePoint?

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